Can One Country Really Be Superior To Another?
May 30th, 2008
Email this article to a friend
I expected 10 Reasons Japan Is Better Than America and 10 Reasons America Is Better Than Japan to be slightly controversial, but I still didn’t understand why there were so many angry comments (some of which have been edited for language or deleted). Then I checked my stats, and found that the pro-Japan post has gotten almost 12,000 hits so far from StumbleUpon (thanks, Evelyn!). Given the traffic, it’s not surprising that some people felt the need to stick up for their country.
One of the anonymous commenters, calling himself “k,” said “No country is better than another. That’s a nationalistic and somewhat dangerous attitude…Every place has it’s good sides/bad sides…Get over the nationalism.”
I certainly agree that every country has its pluses and minuses. In fact, that was exactly the point of those two posts. But consider the statement “No country is better than another.” Are you sure about that? Are you sure you don’t think that France is better than North Korea? Or is “k” right, just like many parents say they couldn’t possibly have a favorite child?
I was comparing the U.S. and Japan in terms of things that are important to me, but of course I’m biased. I can’t really say that the U.S. is better in an objective sense. Can we ever say that one country is better than another, not just in our opinion, but on some objective scale?
On Bill Maher’s show, he once had an interesting discussion about cultural superiority. He said:
“[Jack Straw] said that he does not want to talk to women in burkhas. He said it is a visible statement of separation and difference. And, you know what? I agree with him. I think a lot of people think tolerance goes to the level of tolerating intolerance. And, to me, the burkha is a symbol of intolerance…There are countries in the world where they’re living in the 14th century. Why come to the West and maintain the burkha? It doesn’t seem to make any sense to me.”
Then Ben Affleck said:
“I don’t know. Why show up and still sing your Irish songs in Boston or bring your Italian cultural traditions? [applause] … to imply the superiority of one race or culture over another is the definition of racism.”
To which Maher responded:
“…we’re not implying that the race is superior. We’re implying that what that culture, our culture, has adopted as our mores is – is superior…Rule of law, equality of the sexes, they are superior.”
Bill Clinton once said of the U.S., “This is not a perfect society, but it is one that is stumbling in the right direction.” That implies that there’s a “right” direction to stumble towards, that some cultures are better than others. Not just different, but better.
Of course, we could argue forever about what the right direction is. Henry David Thoreau said “I have no doubt that it is part of the destiny of the human race in its gradual development to leave off the eating of animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came into contact with the more civilized.” There’s plenty of room for disagreement there.
But your personal preferences aside, do you think one country can truly be superior to another? Or are all cultures equally valid?
May 30th, 2008 at 2:52 am
Hi Hunter,
I don’t think one country can be COMPLETELY superior over another. Each country has it’s positives as well as negatives. I do think we can learn from each other, help each other and support each other, and hopefully one day, come together for the good of all people.
Take the US, although we have a huge National debt, when a crisis happens in another country, we are willing to help by sending money and/or people…with the most recent being China (after their devastating earthquake).
Why can’t we all just get along?
Barbara Swaffords last blog post..Be Inspired By Nothing
May 30th, 2008 at 5:38 am
“That implies that there’s a “right” direction to stumble towards, that some cultures are better than others.”
There’s nothing wrong with implying that there’s a “right” direction – I think people today are too afraid to say something is “right” for fear of offending others. **** that.
That said, a country is made of people – good bad and indifferent – and America/Japan isn’t really apples to apples. Enjoy the good from of both sides as best you can.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Dave said “I think people today are too afraid to say something is “right” for fear of offending others” and I agree.
One of the great things about you, Hunter, is that you are not PC. It’s great. Don’t change!
My 2 cents? Of course one country can be generally superior to another country. A democracy is better than a dictatorship. A country where people enjoy a high quality of life and have access to food and health care is better than a country where people die of starvation and disease. A country where people enjoy civil rights and freedoms is better than a country where people are abducted and murdered for speaking their minds.
Vereds last blog post..The Sleazy Ads of Google Adsense
May 30th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Hi Hunter,
Interesting article. From a purely statistical stand, a country can be superior to another based off of living conditions and access to health care and quality food as Vered pointed out. However, a country is very much its culture, and i believe that no culture is superior to another. They may be different, but to call a specific culture superior over another shows magnificent ignorance. Not to mention that a superiority complex is inherent in the minds, culture, and countries of inferiority!
May 30th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
No, I don’t think one country can be considered superior to another, because what is ‘good’ and ‘bad’ is completely subjective. I will say that countries in which the majority of the population think that THEIR OWN COUNTRY is inferior to others in certain areas might want to reconsider.
I like the United States a lot, but I disagree with many things that are happening in the way the country is run. I may choose to live somewhere else because of those reasons. The pros of that country will outweigh the pros of this one. The thing is, my pros aren’t every other person’s pros. I might consider higher taxes for universal health care to be a pro, for example, because health care is more important to me. I know many people who would disagree, and that’s fine. It doesn’t make their position superior or inferior to mine, it’s just a different set of priorities.
By the same token, every country has its own priorities. Saying that one is superior to another offers an overarching judgment on what is ‘good’ and ‘bad’, and I have found that only incredibly foolish or arrogant people claim to know in all instances what is good and bad.
Tei – Rogue Inks last blog post..Roleplaying for Writers, Or Why It’s Cool to Geek Out.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
There’s a huge difference in culture and geo political entities. Don’t confuse the two.
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Uh Oh, It’s Getting A Little Whacky
May 30th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Thanks for the comments, everyone. You’ve made some great points. In practice, I think it’s hard to say that one country is flat out better than another, but I also think that in some aspects there is in fact a right way.
@ Barbara, yes, every country has positives and negatives. You gave a good example of the U.S. being so eager to help in spite of their debt. People who think the U.S. has no redeeming characteristics should remember this. On the other hand, the U.S. is also sometimes eager to go to war.
@ Dave, I think there’s a right direction too, at least in some cases. And yes, people are afraid to say that, and that’s what Bill Maher meant by tolerating intolerance. Like saying “Well, if they want to slaughter their own people, that’s just the way they do things, and it’s OK.” No, it’s wrong. And because a country is made of individual people, that’s part of what makes it hard to compare two countries.
@ Vered, being completely PC just seems a bit extreme for me. If you’re always careful not to offend anyone, you’re just going to bore everyone. I’d prefer not to offend anyone if possible, but it’s just not possible if you want a blog to have any personality.
@ Taz and Tei, I agree that most cultural differences should be respected. Different people have different priorities. One country might value hard work, while another might value relaxation. Your preference is your opinion, not a way that is inherently right. However, I do think that for some things, there’s an objective right and wrong. For example, I think slavery is wrong, not just as my personal opinion, but I think it’s inherently uncivilized.
@ Janice, I don’t think I was confusing culture with geo political entities, just combining the two. Tei said she might be leaving the U.S. because she disagrees with the way the country is being run. Many other people disagree with how the U.S. is run, and when they criticize it, they point to the politics more so than the culture. It’s not exactly fair to judge people by what their leaders do, but it happens.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Judgments about cultural are, of course subjective. That does not mean that one subjective judgment can not be better than another.
No doubt people who live in cultures where treating women like chattel, burning homosexuals alive in the public square, and sawing people’s heads off for blasphemy regard their own culture as just peachy keen and the modern liberal industrial culture of tolerance, secularism and sexual equality as vile.
But then, they are wrong.
The notion that there is no way to determine which set of values is better is sophomoric drivel perpetuated by people who are too intellectually lazy to reason out the benefits of cultural phenomena such as tolerance and secularism. These values are not simply arbitrary but evolve out of reason acting on experience.
Now whether shaking hands or bowing, eating sushi or Long John Silver’s filet o’ fish is better is not what I am talking about. These aspects of culture are trivialities to be enjoyed for what they are.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Hunter,
Thank you. I think that is a mistake if you want to have a real discussion. This serves no value to me, Hunter. It’s too convenient and simplistic. What benefit does it serve to frame your discussion in a “my dad can beat up your dad” way? Seriously, what’s the benefit of that? Except to you in traffic because of your choice of words. You are bragging about your stats up there. What is your real point here? Do you want to bring attention to something worth discussing in a meaningful way, or do you want to manipulate nationalism? Seriously, and respectfully. Do better. Do we really need more sound bites of faux controversy when we’re talking global quality of life? It. Just. Gets. Tiresome.
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Uh Oh, It’s Getting A Little Whacky
May 31st, 2008 at 8:42 am
There is a right way, but it is fairly broad, and I think this is represented very well by comparing the U.S., Europe, Japan, Canada and Australia. All are on the right path (freedom of choice, free speech, freedom to live where you want, etc.). Each way inside the right way has different attributes.
There is also a “wrong way”, but again it is fairly broad and I would include most African countries, Russia, N. Korea, Myanmar, most of the Middle East, and a few South American countries.
It’s hard to place China, as they seem to be riding the line in between right and wrong and could go either way.
Chads last blog post..Have a Great Weekend!
May 31st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
@ Eric, I agree that those awful things you mentioned are wrong, but I’m not sure where to draw the line. For example, is universal health care necessary in a fully civilized society?
@ Janice, some generalization is needed unless you have time to individually judge the 6.7 billion people on this planet.
“What benefit does it serve to frame your discussion in a ‘my dad can beat up your dad’ way?”
Who are the dads? This post is not about the U.S. (which is where I live).
“You are bragging about your stats up there.”
No, I simply stated my stats up there. You’re the one who perceived that as bragging. Why?
“What is your real point here?”
To have a meaningful discussion about cultural acceptance and the extent to which it applies, which is what happened.
@ Chad, I think that’s the right idea, that a right and wrong way exist but they’re fairly broad. And I generally agree with your classification of those countries, but I also think the “right” countries may be doing some things wrong, and the “wrong” countries may be doing some things right.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:29 pm
A country where people enjoy a high quality of life and have access to food and health care is better than a country where people die of starvation and disease. – Vered
Is the country where people enjoy a high quality of life still better if their refusal to cancel out debt, ravaging of resources and theft of land is the reason that people in the other country are dying of starvation and disease? This doesn’t only apply to the US, but the UK as well (where I am).
May 31st, 2008 at 9:09 pm
“Is the country where people enjoy a high quality of life still better if their refusal to cancel out debt, ravaging of resources and theft of land is the reason that people in the other country are dying of starvation and disease? This doesn’t only apply to the US, but the UK as well (where I am).” – Emily
Why should rich countries just cancel debt owed them by poorer countries? The poorer countries knew what they were getting into when they took on the debt. Sure, some of that debt is forced upon them, but not all of it by any means.
Also, the richer countries have “ravaged resources” in some 3rd world countries, but that is the exception now, not the rule…ask any oil producer.
The poorer/failing countries need to get their act together and quit fighting centuries old tribal battles, and set up a functional government. Good examples are Brazil, Columbia and even a one or two African countries are coming around.
Chads last blog post..Have a Great Weekend!
May 31st, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Hunter,
“We don’t see the things the way they are. We see things the way WE are.”
- Talmund
This great quote applies to countries as well. As Barbara said, each country has its positive and negative culturally. Now, I understand your view point of superiority in terms of socio-economic parity between two countries but as far as cultural parity, it’s hard to consider one country better than another.
Shilpan
Shilpan | successsoul.coms last blog post..How I Transformed My Life with These 5 Simple Thoughts
June 1st, 2008 at 9:21 am
Hunter,
I think we not on opposite sides here. I am objecting to form. That’s all. If you got what you were after, then that’s lovely. You missed my point. And that is okay. For your purposes, it is insignificant. I am sure it is a matter of style and preference.
Since you asked specifically:
“who are the dads”- refers to both your US and your Japanese posts and the word choice for their titles, useful for your purposes
bragging about the stats- poor word choice on my part, but here is the reference
“Given the traffic, it’s not surprising that some people felt the need to stick up for their country.
IMHO it was not so much the traffic, but your nationalistic challenge. In the sentences before that you were mentioning the stats , the stumble…not bad things just your POV
And for me-
“some generalization is needed you have time to individually judge the 6.7 billion people on this planet.”
You wanted a nationalistic conversation. You got it. It is easier to “judge ” larger entities like that for discussion sake. And that’s what this was. A limited discussion of geopolitical borders with some culture tossed in. So it worked for you. Nothing wrong with that.
“A meaningful discussion of cultural acceptance” . That’s a different conversation in my humble opinion.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
@ Emily, I think your comment shows why it’s often hard to say that one country is better than another, because they all have strengths and weaknesses. But with regard to particular aspects, I think one country can be better than another. As far as the U.S. refusing to cancel debt, I don’t see why they should. The U.S. is carrying far more debt than anyone else, and I don’t think they can afford to throw away even more money.
@ Chad, thanks for responding to Emily’s comment. I wasn’t sure how to, but you did a good job.
@ Shilpan, what an insightful quote! People often don’t see their own weaknesses, and no evil person sees themselves as evil. I agree that for things like shaking hands vs. bowing, it comes down to personal preference, and we can’t say that one way is inherently better than another.
@ Janice, thank you very much for the clarification. I think I understand your point much better now. Before I thought you were referring to this specific post. My U.S. and Japan posts were indeed meant as “my dad can beat up your dad” posts. I did what I could to maximize their popularity, by using list posts, putting a number in the titles, and trying to provoke a reaction. Absolutely. And I’ll continue to do that, as long as I don’t cross the line as I see it.
We might disagree about where that line is, and that’s OK. Steve Pavlina recently wrote 10 Reasons You Should Never Have a Religion (which came after my U.S. and Japan posts, so I wasn’t influenced by him). His post is far more controversial than I want to be. I wasn’t offended at all, and in fact I really liked that post and admired his courage, but as you can imagine, many people were really pissed off.
When I’m controversial, I want to be only mildly or moderately so. I think I was very balanced in bashing both countries, and in fact I bashed my own country first in order to avoid being perceived as anti-Japanese.
Now this post right here, this was a much more serious post for exploring whether the “my dad can beat up your dad” perspective is based on our personal preferences, or if there are any objective standards for right and wrong. And I think we got some great comments out of it.
By the way, I really appreciate that you used your real name and your brain when disagreeing with me. It’s much more constructive than the anonymous “you suck” comments I received (and deleted).
June 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pm
By the way, I really appreciate that you used your real name and your brain when disagreeing with me. It’s much more constructive than the anonymous “you suck” comments I received (and deleted).
Chuckling. Well that would be me to a tee. And I appreciate your abilities. The anonymous you sucks…does that add value? About as much as sound bite media passing as news or debate. They’re not only idiots, but cowards as well. Shame on them.
I look forward to future posts.
Janice Cartiers last blog post..Uh Oh, It’s Getting A Little Whacky
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I think Bill Maher has got some serious problems, issues, or whatever concerning women himself, so I’m hardly going to go to him as the final authority on whether Jack Straw is right about burkhas. First off, hardly anyone in the UK wears a burkha. They wear hijabs and sometimes niqabs. If Maher can’t even be fussed to learn about the different types of Islamic veiling then he’s not qualified to have an opinion. Secondly, the whole point of veiling for Muslim women is so that they can maintain a sense of privacy when they go out in public. OK, some so-called Muslim men have made this about helping *them* avoid temptation, but that’s crap; if they can’t fight temptation on their own then by their own lights they’re bound for hell no matter how the women are dressed. Which brings me to thirdly, I’m sick and tired of seeing men objecting to veiling in the name of feminism because as long as men maintain the current rape and sexual assault rates, benefit from and defend unequal pay, question why mothers get custody more often than fathers when they can’t be fussed to get up off their butts and help raise the kids to begin with, and defend the right to an abortion because it gets them off the child support hook and for no other reason, then men don’t have any right to go on about veiling in the name of women’s rights, because all your other actions as a gender tell me you *don’t* care about women’s rights. And frankly, you’d be very surprised how many Muslimahs *voluntarily* take up veiling, either hijab or hijab and niqab together, *because* they believe it is about their rights. They’re beyond sick and tired of being judged solely on their f**kability merits, which is what goes on in non-Muslim Western culture. And I don’t blame them in the slightest. Hell, the only reason I don’t veil in solidarity with them is that I do not have good heat tolerance, but I don’t dress like a tramp, either, because I’m not playing that game anymore.
So Maher can shut the h377 up, and so can anyone who agrees with him or Straw. If it was men wanting to veil nobody would be debating the matter with them. Women are not decorative objects. Quit thinking of us that way.
As to the other, it’s dishonest to compare France and North Korea and to say that it is a cultural comparison. Communism is not a culture, it is a form of government and an economic model. We have been quite adept in modern times at separating these factors from human culture generally, so that’s how we have to judge those things now. Korean culture is a whole ‘nother animal from North Korean government, and it would be more honest to compare French culture and Korean culture minus the communism.
Anyway, I thought that as good Americans we were supposed to hate both the French and the North Koreans? Which would be weird for me, as I have French ancestry and virtually no English (if any at all), but whatever, nobody said American jingoism made any sense.
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
The best countries are those that give the most to its people. The ones that provide the best life for their inhabitants and give them an equal opportunity to reach those provisions.
History has shown that it can fluctuate (both here and elsewhere).
I wish I knew more about world history. Than perhaps I could say who’s been at it the longest now?
It sure as hell ain’t us.
Nicoles last blog post..Awesome, Smart Shit Around the Web Today
October 9th, 2009 at 11:46 am
of course there are superior countries.
for example Europe is superior to the USA as well economically as socially.
October 9th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Yes, certain countries are superior. Just like certain people can have superior grammar to others.